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	<title>Comments on: Book Me In, Baby</title>
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	<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/</link>
	<description>The worst shidduchim you've ever had.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 03:21:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: She</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-663</link>
		<dc:creator>She</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-663</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you could join us virtually at least :)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you could join us virtually at least <img src='http://www.unbrokenglass.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: In Australia</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-662</link>
		<dc:creator>In Australia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-662</guid>
		<description>I just feel the need to thank all you people. You may not realize it but you are all amazing people.  I came to look up about shomer negia and came out with a better understanding that i NEED a middle path. I naturally gravitate towards beni akiva no matter where I am in the world.  The world overlooks the middle path and its what is really the best thing ever.  I lean towards the right or left on some issues becuase I am definitly not a centerist.  what I found here was some great thinkers which is what the world needs people who think for themselves whichis why I go left on some things and right on others. The shomer thing really hit me in a snag that I am now stuck in.  I wish I had a community that i really liked.  I have been very well blessed by hashem with finding the very worst in people which is becuase I also see the very best. I want everything at once and can&#039;t settle. i should just end here before I go crazy that i dont have a commuinty or country(well israel of course) or city that i can trully call my own</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just feel the need to thank all you people. You may not realize it but you are all amazing people.  I came to look up about shomer negia and came out with a better understanding that i NEED a middle path. I naturally gravitate towards beni akiva no matter where I am in the world.  The world overlooks the middle path and its what is really the best thing ever.  I lean towards the right or left on some issues becuase I am definitly not a centerist.  what I found here was some great thinkers which is what the world needs people who think for themselves whichis why I go left on some things and right on others. The shomer thing really hit me in a snag that I am now stuck in.  I wish I had a community that i really liked.  I have been very well blessed by hashem with finding the very worst in people which is becuase I also see the very best. I want everything at once and can&#8217;t settle. i should just end here before I go crazy that i dont have a commuinty or country(well israel of course) or city that i can trully call my own</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-661</guid>
		<description>I read the story and sadly the same thing happened to me this weekend. I am from San Diego CA, and it appears this happens everywhere. The guy was normal, he payed for the bill. He was romantic, loving and very caring. Funny also. He even went to the extreme and told me he would call me. Now I call him. and wait. No return call. I know exactly how you feel. My feelings are with you..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the story and sadly the same thing happened to me this weekend. I am from San Diego CA, and it appears this happens everywhere. The guy was normal, he payed for the bill. He was romantic, loving and very caring. Funny also. He even went to the extreme and told me he would call me. Now I call him. and wait. No return call. I know exactly how you feel. My feelings are with you..</p>
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		<title>By: Id</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator>Id</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-660</guid>
		<description>Men just screw things up completely
??   who are you to totaly discriminate against all men. some of us are fun. some of us are smart. some of us are responsible. okay, maybe just a handful of us. but you get the point.
I find male bashing mean and hurtful. I too have trouble finding my basheret, but from every shidduch I grow and mature myself. This guy was a fool and wrong for misleading you, besides men who live double lives never marry for life. he should be shot for his errors, but please.
on behalf of us &quot;good&quot; guys, stop male bashing. then maybe, just maybe, your basheret will come out of hiding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Men just screw things up completely<br />
??   who are you to totaly discriminate against all men. some of us are fun. some of us are smart. some of us are responsible. okay, maybe just a handful of us. but you get the point.<br />
I find male bashing mean and hurtful. I too have trouble finding my basheret, but from every shidduch I grow and mature myself. This guy was a fool and wrong for misleading you, besides men who live double lives never marry for life. he should be shot for his errors, but please.<br />
on behalf of us &#8220;good&#8221; guys, stop male bashing. then maybe, just maybe, your basheret will come out of hiding.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: her</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-659</link>
		<dc:creator>her</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-659</guid>
		<description>People do do tshuva.  Presumably when he was in yeshiva with your friend&#039;s husband, he was frummer, and for whatever reason he&#039;s become somewhat more distant from frumkeit.  If he&#039;s basically a good person and you get along with him and he&#039;s honest (and it was big of him to own up to his short-falls!), I think it&#039;s worth considering again.  Really.  

There are so many factors which go into a good shidduch, and while frumkeit is a factor, it&#039;s not necessarily a factor in the way you think it should be.  That is, a seriousness about religion, a willingness to do honest self-evaluation, humility, . . . all of these things are the types of durable character traits that are really integral parts of people.  Whether someone davens or learns as regularly as he should, or even is shomer negiah, these traits can overcome.  

He knew you were frum.  Presumably he was dating you with the idea of rising to -your- level.  Maybe you&#039;re right and he&#039;s going to stay where he is with no changes to himself, but people are in a constant state of evolution and self-evaluation.  

After one date with you, he couldn&#039;t imagine doing tshuva and being as frum as possible, but that&#039;s not necessarily the most meaningful standard.  With more dates, I think that you would both be able to reevaluate the situation in a much more accurate way:  he could see the advantages of being frummer, and you could both see whether you liked eachother.  

I really really urge you to get in touch with this guy again (maybe through your friend) and give it a real shot.  

Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but it&#039;s best to marry a person, not a checklist of mitzvot.  

I am also a BT and I spent a while shidduch dating, and one thing which really confused me was this aspect that you&#039;re trying to find a person you&#039;re compatible with and you&#039;re also trying to find someone whose frumkeit matches up with yours.

  The first task is hard enough --- secular people certainly have lots of trouble with it, when religion isn&#039;t such a factor.  When you add the second factor, the question is what really constitutes frumkeit --- it&#039;s pashut that you can&#039;t count on your bashert eating the same hekshers, but even counting on him being fully observant always throughout his whole life isn&#039;t necessarily realistic.  Maybe you&#039;ve found him at a low point in his life, and maybe this is the lowest point he will ever be at?  

(It also cannot be overemphasized how important it is that he was so honest with you.)

Finally, I have a personal story.  I am in grad school in the same place I went to college.  I went on two dates when I first came back from seminary with two different people.  By coincidence, each time I saw my close (secular Jewish) friend&#039;s boyfriend who gave me a perfunctory hug.  

I see this guy no more than twice  a year, and it&#039;s never really been an opportune time to tell him that I&#039;m shomeret negiah.  I feel like that could potentially do far more harm to my friend&#039;s view of Judaism than perfunctory hugs do to my neshama.  

Also, on the topic of shmirat negiah, different communities have different standards:  Germans and Dutch, e.g., have long had the custom of shaking hands with the opposite sex.  Once I was at the rabbanut getting papers processed for aliya and one of the rabbis took me by the elbow while pointing me to a clerk.  This is a sweet old Moroccan man, and his gesture was not lacivious (it was in the central office of the Jerusalem rabbanut, after all!  in front of all these rabbanut rabbis!)

Best of luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People do do tshuva.  Presumably when he was in yeshiva with your friend&#8217;s husband, he was frummer, and for whatever reason he&#8217;s become somewhat more distant from frumkeit.  If he&#8217;s basically a good person and you get along with him and he&#8217;s honest (and it was big of him to own up to his short-falls!), I think it&#8217;s worth considering again.  Really.  </p>
<p>There are so many factors which go into a good shidduch, and while frumkeit is a factor, it&#8217;s not necessarily a factor in the way you think it should be.  That is, a seriousness about religion, a willingness to do honest self-evaluation, humility, . . . all of these things are the types of durable character traits that are really integral parts of people.  Whether someone davens or learns as regularly as he should, or even is shomer negiah, these traits can overcome.  </p>
<p>He knew you were frum.  Presumably he was dating you with the idea of rising to -your- level.  Maybe you&#8217;re right and he&#8217;s going to stay where he is with no changes to himself, but people are in a constant state of evolution and self-evaluation.  </p>
<p>After one date with you, he couldn&#8217;t imagine doing tshuva and being as frum as possible, but that&#8217;s not necessarily the most meaningful standard.  With more dates, I think that you would both be able to reevaluate the situation in a much more accurate way:  he could see the advantages of being frummer, and you could both see whether you liked eachother.  </p>
<p>I really really urge you to get in touch with this guy again (maybe through your friend) and give it a real shot.  </p>
<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but it&#8217;s best to marry a person, not a checklist of mitzvot.  </p>
<p>I am also a BT and I spent a while shidduch dating, and one thing which really confused me was this aspect that you&#8217;re trying to find a person you&#8217;re compatible with and you&#8217;re also trying to find someone whose frumkeit matches up with yours.</p>
<p>  The first task is hard enough &#8212; secular people certainly have lots of trouble with it, when religion isn&#8217;t such a factor.  When you add the second factor, the question is what really constitutes frumkeit &#8212; it&#8217;s pashut that you can&#8217;t count on your bashert eating the same hekshers, but even counting on him being fully observant always throughout his whole life isn&#8217;t necessarily realistic.  Maybe you&#8217;ve found him at a low point in his life, and maybe this is the lowest point he will ever be at?  </p>
<p>(It also cannot be overemphasized how important it is that he was so honest with you.)</p>
<p>Finally, I have a personal story.  I am in grad school in the same place I went to college.  I went on two dates when I first came back from seminary with two different people.  By coincidence, each time I saw my close (secular Jewish) friend&#8217;s boyfriend who gave me a perfunctory hug.  </p>
<p>I see this guy no more than twice  a year, and it&#8217;s never really been an opportune time to tell him that I&#8217;m shomeret negiah.  I feel like that could potentially do far more harm to my friend&#8217;s view of Judaism than perfunctory hugs do to my neshama.  </p>
<p>Also, on the topic of shmirat negiah, different communities have different standards:  Germans and Dutch, e.g., have long had the custom of shaking hands with the opposite sex.  Once I was at the rabbanut getting papers processed for aliya and one of the rabbis took me by the elbow while pointing me to a clerk.  This is a sweet old Moroccan man, and his gesture was not lacivious (it was in the central office of the Jerusalem rabbanut, after all!  in front of all these rabbanut rabbis!)</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
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		<title>By: She</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-658</link>
		<dc:creator>She</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-658</guid>
		<description>It was a buttoned-down shirt, if you must know. 
It&#039;s nice to see you&#039;ve noticed the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a buttoned-down shirt, if you must know.<br />
It&#8217;s nice to see you&#8217;ve noticed the details.</p>
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		<title>By: AsIf</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-657</link>
		<dc:creator>AsIf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Feb 2003 22:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-657</guid>
		<description>Make up before clothes .. pressed powder on a black top does not look good :) j/k..actually Ive never really thought about it..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Make up before clothes .. pressed powder on a black top does not look good <img src='http://www.unbrokenglass.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  j/k..actually Ive never really thought about it..</p>
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		<title>By: New Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-656</link>
		<dc:creator>New Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-656</guid>
		<description>Actually, another thing bewilders me...what kind of 60 year old doctor is looking for a shidduch for his daughter on the internet? Where do they live? Juno, Alaska? Poor girl...There were no more boys in the beis medrash so daddy&#039;s looking on google.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, another thing bewilders me&#8230;what kind of 60 year old doctor is looking for a shidduch for his daughter on the internet? Where do they live? Juno, Alaska? Poor girl&#8230;There were no more boys in the beis medrash so daddy&#8217;s looking on google.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: New Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator>New Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-655</guid>
		<description>Just one thing from this story bewilders me. Do all chicks put their make up on before their clothes? Or is it just you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one thing from this story bewilders me. Do all chicks put their make up on before their clothes? Or is it just you?</p>
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		<title>By: She</title>
		<link>http://www.unbrokenglass.com/she/45/book-me-in-baby/comment-page-2/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator>She</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://new.unbrokenglass.com/?p=45#comment-654</guid>
		<description>This thread needs to die in peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread needs to die in peace.</p>
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